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Chloroform ?
#1
Is there anything that you can use to sedate your cockerel or kill them quietly ? I was thinking of the old movies where someone holds a pad with chloroform on it over someone's face and they pass out. I just can not stand all the thrashing around that goes on when you dislocate their necks, and it makes me feel the job has not been done properly and the chicken is really suffering.

I have read with interest the article on euthanasia using CO2 under FAQs and wonder if anyone has tried that on a cockerel ? it says max 2 lbs in weight so OK for the young boys.



Thanks

Suzie
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#2
When I first started breeding, I used bicarb and vinegar in a sealed container to gas chicks and it worked very well. I did find it an awful faff having to set it up though!
You've only got one life - live it!
squizzers
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#3
Hi Suzy,



My dad always used to use the car exhaust to do the job, and I'd say it worked well - the time it took depends on the size of the animal.

Trouble now is most cars etc are either unleaded or diesel; I know one won't really have any effect and the other will take longer.



I'm sure someone else may have a far more helpful answer: if not maybe google it?
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#4
We had a long discussion at Squizzers about the best way. Choccy is a mine of info on the science of this. We came to the conclusion that the kindest way was the broomhandle method as this severed the nerve thingie that goes up to the brain. Dislocating the neck does not do this so the brain is still reacting for a while. (Well something like that) But I dont think it stops the thrashing around. I agree how unnerving it is. Having one pts at the vet is even worse. They took about 20 minutes to put my little lavender pekin to sleep. There is a scientific reason for that too but I have forgotten it. We need Choccy to explain.. <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#5
I don't know about gassing birds or sedating them, I imagine the nerve reaction to death would be pretty much the same. Just a suggestion but I find if I hold the wing tips in the same hand as the legs then the flapping about is a lot less harrowing.
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#6
[quote name='Teazel' date='08 May 2012 - 10:53 AM' timestamp='1336470798' post='258504']

We had a long discussion at Squizzers about the best way. Choccy is a mine of info on the science of this. We came to the conclusion that the kindest way was the broomhandle method as this severed the nerve thingie that goes up to the brain. Dislocating the neck does not do this so the brain is still reacting for a while. (Well something like that) But I dont think it stops the thrashing around. I agree how unnerving it is. Having one pts at the vet is even worse. They took about 20 minutes to put my little lavender pekin to sleep. There is a scientific reason for that too but I have forgotten it. We need Choccy to explain.. <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />

[/quote]





I know I harp on about this quite a lot but I really wouldn't want people put off taking a bird to be put to sleep if that is the only option for them. The vet that put your Pekin to sleep clearly did it wrong. I put all my own birds to sleep (thanks to my tame vet) and only once has one taken any real time to die and even then it was soundo unconcsious until I upped the dosage so certainly not suffering. Without exception all of the large cockerels of my own I do, are asleep in seconds and dead very soon after.
I never make the same mistake twice. I do it at least five or six times, just to make sure !

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#7
I agree with April. We have had a few PTS at the vet when we have taken them there and there was nothing that could be done for them. Both times the bird took no time at all to die, going asleep within seconds infact. There was still the same unpleasant flapping of course.
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#8
I take my birds to the vet to be pts, they go peacefully. They fall asleep first then just stop breathing, with their dopey owner shedding tears all over them. I get charged £9.95 by the vet and it's money well spent for me.

I had a girl, Maggie, who had a stroke then died in my arms. One minute she was lying peacefully and the next flapping away so I think it's just a nerve thing. Ross suggested that it's not so bad if you wrap them in a towel before you cull, less flapping.

We all find our own way and as long as the bird doesn't suffer then that's all that counts.
If they can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love.
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#9
Whichever way its done I reckon we suffer more than the birds <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='blink' />
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#10
When I gassed the chicks, there was no flapping, as they were asleep within seconds and just stopped breathing. Never heard any flapping - was a bit of a woos so covered over the box so I didn't have to watch. <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blushing.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blushing:' />
You've only got one life - live it!
squizzers
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#11
[quote name='Teazel' date='08 May 2012 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1336494774' post='258519']

Whichever way its done I reckon we suffer more than the birds <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='blink' />

[/quote]



I have no doubts that this is the case. I get stupidly attached to my girls and because I watch them often you get to see they all have their own little foibles, so when they pop off you miss them.
If they can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love.
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#12
The flapping is a nerve thing and happens most times - though in my experience

it is a little less vigourous if the bird is very ill or on its last legs when

the deed is done. They do flap even when they go naturally without our help. Just because we dont witness it doesnt mean it doesnt

happen, unfortunately. I hate it too but you do start to realise its just a reaction. Some people put them in a traffic cone with the

head sticking out so it stops the flapping but they will still twitch.

Also, depends on whether you eat them as to what you use - I wouldnt have

thought cloroform or any other drug is a good idea if its for the table <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />
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#13
I too hate the flapping, but have almost come to terms with it because then I know I have killed quickly and the bird is gone. I use the broomstick method but always hate doing it and feel horrible for ages afterwards but they die instantly and because the flapping is reassuring me that the bird is no longer suffering, I leave the body on the ground and go and make a strong coffee, then go back to deal with a now still bird. Definitely the worst part of chicken keeping I think.
Today is the First Day of the rest of our lives.
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#14
May I just add - the chicks I did with gas were only up to two weeks old!



My MWD does the deed for me (no balance and not strong enough to do it myself) and breaks their necks. My son uses the broomstick method. I hate the flapping, but there is no choice really is there!
You've only got one life - live it!
squizzers
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#15
If you are not able/dont wish to have your lad culled by neck dislocation either manual (hands on) or broomstick method, please please take him to the Vet to be pts.

The primary aim and last respect we can offer our animals that need to have their lives ended, is that they are rendered unconsious as immediately as possible.

Neck dislocation done correctly either manually or broomstick should not simply just dislocate the neck, it should pull the spinal cord from the brainstem base too - this causes a massive concussion rendering unconsious immediately.

With injection sedation renders them unconsious.

Carbon Dioxide gassing/poisioning would need to be very very procise inorder to guarantee a kill without suffering for a large bird.

Done too quickly I believe can cause streaming eyes and burning to the throat, done too slowly causes a drawn out death <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Sad' />

If you cull by neck dislocation immediately after dislocation feel the neck, there should be a clear gap between the vertibrae that just feels spongey with pooling blood - its a good idea to have an empty bin or tubtrug handy (maybe a little bedding in the bottom if it makes you feel better) and once the deed is done and checked simply place the bird in this then go away for a few mins untill the flapping is over <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />

if you dont have the stomach for it or anyone to help you please please take him to the vet.
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