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Chloroform ?
#16
[quote name='Choccy Chook' date='10 May 2012 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1336656283' post='258634']

If you are not able/dont wish to have your lad culled by neck dislocation either manual (hands on) or broomstick method, please please take him to the Vet to be pts.

The primary aim and last respect we can offer our animals that need to have their lives ended, is that they are rendered unconsious as immediately as possible.

Neck dislocation done correctly either manually or broomstick should not simply just dislocate the neck, it should pull the spinal cord from the brainstem base too - this causes a massive concussion rendering unconsious immediately.

With injection sedation renders them unconsious.

Carbon Dioxide gassing/poisioning would need to be very very procise inorder to guarantee a kill without suffering for a large bird.

Done too quickly I believe can cause streaming eyes and burning to the throat, done too slowly causes a drawn out death <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Sad' />

If you cull by neck dislocation immediately after dislocation feel the neck, there should be a clear gap between the vertibrae that just feels spongey with pooling blood - its a good idea to have an empty bin or tubtrug handy (maybe a little bedding in the bottom if it makes you feel better) and once the deed is done and checked simply place the bird in this then go away for a few mins untill the flapping is over <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />

if you dont have the stomach for it or anyone to help you please please take him to the vet.

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<img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/goodpost.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':goodpost:' />
Today is the First Day of the rest of our lives.
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#17
[quote name='auntsally' date='10 May 2012 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1336661061' post='258638']

<img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/goodpost.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':goodpost:' />

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Shall we give her a brownie point <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#18
[quote name='Teazel' date='10 May 2012 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1336661797' post='258641']

Shall we give her a brownie point <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />

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I think she should have two. [Image: biggrin.gif]
CHUCKLERS RULE THE ROOST - Dave. Zen Seeker of The Board. rabbit run
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#19
[quote name='zenith' date='10 May 2012 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1336663789' post='258645']

I think she should have two. [Image: biggrin.gif]

[/quote]

Hang on a minute, don't overdo it, she'll be getting a big head and it won't fit into her riding hat <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#20
[quote name='Teazel' date='10 May 2012 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1336669833' post='258648']

Hang on a minute, don't overdo it, she'll be getting a big head and it won't fit into her riding hat <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[/quote]



[Image: hysterical3.gif]
CHUCKLERS RULE THE ROOST - Dave. Zen Seeker of The Board. rabbit run
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#21
<img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Brownie points!



I dont deserve any, I didnt answer the question!!!..........which was about Cloro... (however you spell it).... wotsit!



wouldn't know how to get it....but then again the internet makes anything possible.........

If you did have it...... maybe it could be used to render unconsiousness/lack of sensibility prior to either bleeding or neck disslocation to ensure that death followed????.......

really think that 'Sutty' and 'Chickenmum' would be better able than any of us to answer that one......



calling Sutty - SUTTY!........calling Chickenmum - CHICKENMUM!......

need an echo'ey voice here......Where are youuuuuu?!



S/V - if you dont actually need him culled quickly, or dont need the Vet bill either, happy to do him for you when I come to Teazels BBq...well not 'happy' (wrong word) but, can, do <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/001_smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':001_smile:' />
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#22
Totally no expert on this BUT if you did give something chloroform or similar before culling then it wouldn't hasten death I don't think, but the bird would be more relaxed and the culler would be less stressed. Teazel practiced neck dislocation on a bird she had pts earlier on in the day so she could do it if needed and know what to do. I really think that's a great idea for anyone if they can.

I have had 2 birds pts by the vet and neither flapped at any time so perhaps with cholorofrm the flapping may be less, I don't know?
If they can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love.
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#23
Yes, flapping is definitely less or non existent with a very sick bird - I suppose its because its already 3 quarters of the way there.

Nice idea to have have CC do it for/with you when she sees you - I definitely think having an expert to hand the first time is the best way to go.
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#24
[quote name='chickenmum' date='11 May 2012 - 07:23 AM' timestamp='1336717407' post='258667']

Totally no expert on this BUT if you did give something chloroform or similar before culling then it wouldn't hasten death I don't think, but the bird would be more relaxed and the culler would be less stressed. Teazel practiced neck dislocation on a bird she had pts earlier on in the day so she could do it if needed and know what to do. I really think that's a great idea for anyone if they can.

I have had 2 birds pts by the vet and neither flapped at any time so perhaps with cholorofrm the flapping may be less, I don't know?

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<img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> Choccy, its one thing doing it on a dead bird another on a live one <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='blink' /> But I suppose I do know how to do it.
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#25
Well seeing as you called for me here's my take on culling.

For background I'm an anaesthetist so use some entertaining drugs in my work, mostly I can't get them for my birds though!



Basically as long as you can reliably kill a bird quickly and as painlessly as possible you should be happy.



The flapping of a bird's body whose head has be "disconnected" by dislocation or decapitation is entirely irrelevant to any suffering, though it is unpleasant for the human observer!



There is a theoretical potential for retained consciousness for a few sconds after decapitation (some interesting historical accounts from the guillotine if you want to do a search).



Ideal is something to ensure sudden painless unconsciousness, followed by guaranteed death without any possibility of return of consciousness in-between.



Personally I have not yet had to cull any of my chickens (although I have humanely killed other animals to avoid suffering, and for research), my preference would be either gassing of young birds with 100%CO2 or an anaesthetic agent, or a fatal blunt blow to the head followed by decapitation for older birds.



If and when I need to cull one of my older birds I'm thinking of a brisk blow to the head with a piece of 2x2" wood, followed by immediate decapitation.



There are a few sedative drugs that could be considered to make this easier, but I would take veterinary advice first as some as some have diferent effects in different species.
Never forget that life is a finite resource.

Experience is something you gain just after you needed it most.
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#26
Please, please do not use chloroform. I doubt you could obtain it by legal methods, it's volatile, highly inflammable and very dangerous! You cannot work/use it in a 'normal room', you need a fume hood with ventilation. Otherwise you are in serious danger of being affected by the fumes yourself.
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#27
Dear CC, Thank you for your very kind offer. Teasel - can you let me know when the BBQ is ? I am also very lucky in that my horse vet will happily come round and cull the cockerels (by neck dislocation) in exchange for dinner. I am definitely going to practice on a dead one first. Re broomstick method I am worried about whether I will pull hard enough/too hard.

What about those humane despatchers that look like scissors - a friend uses those and they are supposed to dislocate the neck. Any thoughts ?

Many thanks

Suzie V
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#28
[quote name='Suzie V' date='12 May 2012 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1336819089' post='258729']

Dear CC, Thank you for your very kind offer. Teasel - can you let me know when the BBQ is ? I am also very lucky in that my horse vet will happily come round and cull the cockerels (by neck dislocation) in exchange for dinner. I am definitely going to practice on a dead one first. Re broomstick method I am worried about whether I will pull hard enough/too hard.

What about those humane despatchers that look like scissors - a friend uses those and they are supposed to dislocate the neck. Any thoughts ?

Many thanks

Suzie V

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Suzie the BBQ is 5th August put it in your diary................ <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' /> But be warned, they are a totally mad lot!!



Re the broomstick method, the amount of strength needed is minimal. Providing you pull the legs towards you and slightly upwards. I used much more strength than needed only just managing not to pull the head off. I am very brave when it comes to doing it on a dead chicken <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> I still like the idea of removing the spinal cord from the brainstem which the broomstick method does and dislocating the neck doesn't necessarily do. (apparently <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':mellow:' /> )
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#29
Despatchers are bad news unless you have got it set absolutely correctly - they crush the neck rather than dislocating it otherwise. People do use them, but I think the broomstick method is much better.
You've only got one life - live it!
squizzers
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#30
The thought is definitely worse than the deed. Like you, I was extremely anxious about but know it was something I had to come to terms with if I am be responsible. That's why I decided to take a course with a local Smallholder's group I belong to. That way, I could observe and be instructed on the right way and ask as many questions as I liked without worries - and there was also someone on hand should I do it completely wrong (which I didnt!). Yes, you may pull too hard the first time - but that's better than not hard enough. I pulled the head off the first time and I have arthritis in my hands and neck so that should tell you that it really doesnt take as much strenth as you might think.





Please take up the offer of your friend to instruct you. I suggest it would be a good idea to have more than one bird to be culled on the day so that you dont just observe, you can actually do it while someone is with you, too.







Sutty - please do consider the broomstick method when the time comes. The thought of the stress a bird would go through being chased round then bashed on the head then decapitated doesnt bear thinking about. Done the right way, broomstick is very calm - honest! Its taken me a week to psych myself up but I just did 10 cockerels yesterday and they are now in the freezer - and we had 2 for dinner last night. It was in their honour that we are eating them - and I said thank you too! (not being crass - I really did).
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