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Chloroform ?
#31
[quote name='Ali's Chooks' date='13 May 2012 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1336913784' post='258776']







Sutty - please do consider the broomstick method when the time comes. [size="3"]The thought of the stress a bird would go through being chased round then bashed on the head then decapitated doesnt bear thinking about. [/size] Done the right way, broomstick is very calm - honest! Its taken me a week to psych myself up but I just did 10 cockerels yesterday and they are now in the freezer - and we had 2 for dinner last night. It was in their honour that we are eating them - and I said thank you too! (not being crass - I really did).

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Sorry I had to comment,

It is possible to hold the bird upside down which will keep it calm and still while the blow to the head is administered, I am sure Sutty is above chasing a chicken round the yard with a club in his hand.
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#32
[quote name='Ali's Chooks' date='13 May 2012 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1336913784' post='258776']



Sutty - please do consider the broomstick method when the time comes. The thought of the stress a bird would go through being chased round then bashed on the head then decapitated doesnt bear thinking about. Done the right way, broomstick is very calm - honest! Its taken me a week to psych myself up but I just did 10 cockerels yesterday and they are now in the freezer - and we had 2 for dinner last night. It was in their honour that we are eating them - and I said thank you too! (not being crass - I really did).

[/quote]



Not sure why you think there is more stress. You have to catch the bird wahtever method you use (pick them off the perch after they go to bed - no chasing around), gentle restraint (as you need whatever method), sudden hard blow to skull (e.g. held against solid floor and hard blow with hard object) to render immediately unconscious and probably dead, decapitation to be absolutely sure there is no recovery of consciousness. I suspect that in my hands there would be less chance of error like this than the broomstick method (eg bird trying to move as I get the broomstick over its neck. However when I need to cull I'll assess how still they will stay before picking a mnethod.



Stun-decapitate is the same basic technique as I used years ago to despatch guineapigs; that was pick them up, stroke to soothe, and suddenly hit back of head very hard on the edge of the lab sink - immediate loss of consciousness, then decapitate with large scissor/shears. The only problem I had was on one occasion my index finger hit the sink as well - it hurt like the devil (thought I'd broken it) but guinea was still unconscious so I had to finish the job before I could sort out my hand!



Does anyone hood their birds to keep them calmer? its something I tried successfully on a racing pigeon I had to sew up (my cats had injured it).
Never forget that life is a finite resource.

Experience is something you gain just after you needed it most.
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#33
[quote name='Sutty' date='13 May 2012 - 02:45 PM' timestamp='1336916753' post='258784']





Stun-decapitate is the same basic technique as I used years ago to despatch guineapigs; that was pick them up, stroke to soothe, and suddenly hit back of head very hard on the edge of the lab sink - immediate loss of consciousness, then decapitate with large scissor/shears. The only problem I had was on one occasion my index finger hit the sink as well - it hurt like the devil (thought I'd broken it) but guinea was still unconscious so I had to finish the job before I could sort out my hand!





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I think we may have over stepped the mark here. This is not humane in my opinion and we have a large number of forum members that keep Guinea Pigs as pets. I doubt they will be very comfortable reading this and neither am I.
I never make the same mistake twice. I do it at least five or six times, just to make sure !

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#34
[quote name='april' date='13 May 2012 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1336922115' post='258787']

I think we may have over stepped the mark here. This is not humane in my opinion and we have a large number of forum members that keep Guinea Pigs as pets. I doubt they will be very comfortable reading this and neither am I.

[/quote]



I'm very sorry if I have offended anyone. And as a child we had pet guinea pigs too, and in fact I rather like them. My work at the time was for medical research on new cardiac drugs. My point was that this was fast and humane method of killing, I am completely confident that none of the animals I dispatched suffered AT ALL. They went from intact animal being very calmly stroked to instantly unconscious to dead. I would have refused to do this had I not been completely confident there was no suffering to the animal. Even giving them a general anaesthetic would have been much more distressing for them.

I did wonder whether to post but humane culling is such an important topic I felt it was worth it.
Never forget that life is a finite resource.

Experience is something you gain just after you needed it most.
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#35
[quote name='goldilocks' date='13 May 2012 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1336914853' post='258779']

Sorry I had to comment,

It is possible to hold the bird upside down which will keep it calm and still while the blow to the head is administered, I am sure Sutty is above chasing a chicken round the yard with a club in his hand.

[/quote]





Yes, I am sure Sutty wouldnt do that; Ive probably over exaggerated so apologies for any offence caused. Holding a weighty cockerel in one hand and weilding a stick in the other is not something I would personally be able to do as It usually takes too much strength just to lift the thing - and I'd probably miss, too!



I just meant to make the point that the broomstick method is just as quick and sure and probably less likely to cause distress. You can do it by yourself very easily as the broom handle is just placed gently at the back of the head as near to the skull as possible so you can position yourself properly before you get started. Once again, because the chicken is upside down it is calm. Im seriously thinking of doing a YouTube video although there are loads on there. A good tip I had was to make sure the head is straight out in front of it with the beak straight ahead - i.e. dont have the chicken's head sideways, that's definitely not right! And put the broomstick as far up to the skull as possible, not halfway down its neck. Then its just a matter of quickly standing on the stick as you pull the legs up firmly. Dont jerk, just pull. If you do manage to pull off the head, then at least you know its done in one fell swoop.



I actually think Sutty and I are on the same page here - culling is not something that any humane person wants to consider but, as I was told, don't hatch if you cant dispatch. And, unpleasant as it is to read or talk about, if you keep animals it is something that crops up eventually - On all the forums I belong to this subject is debated time and time again. I couldnt bear the thought of an animal suffering from injury or illness and me being incapable of doing anything quickly. THAT's what gives me nightmares! Hence why I paid someone to teach me.
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#36
[quote name='Ali's Chooks' date='14 May 2012 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1336993579' post='258849']

I actually think Sutty and I are on the same page here - culling is not something that any humane person wants to consider but, as I was told, don't hatch if you cant dispatch. And, unpleasant as it is to read or talk about, if you keep animals it is something that crops up eventually - On all the forums I belong to this subject is debated time and time again. I couldnt bear the thought of an animal suffering from injury or illness and me being incapable of doing anything quickly. THAT's what gives me nightmares! Hence why I paid someone to teach me.

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I'm sure we are on the same page. Killing an animal is never pleasant, but sometimes it has to be done, and discussion of methods, though uncomfortable, can be useful. Although I've not (yet) had to cull any of my chickens I have culled other birds and small animals which were obviously fatally injured and suffering. Whatever is best for the animal even if that is less pleasant for the person involved.
Never forget that life is a finite resource.

Experience is something you gain just after you needed it most.
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#37
<img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup1:' />
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#38
Ali C - please do a Youtube video. That would be really helpful. Thanks
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#39
[quote name='Suzie V' date='15 May 2012 - 09:43 AM' timestamp='1337071397' post='258934']

Ali C - please do a Youtube video. That would be really helpful. Thanks

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Or not bother with YouTube and just do a PC one for us, surely we can have a useful video like this somewhere on the site.
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#40
[quote name='Kate' date='15 May 2012 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1337073146' post='258937']

Or not bother with YouTube and just do a PC one for us, surely we can have a useful video like this somewhere on the site.

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One exists on YouTube and can be found [url="http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DCR55rMaBQfs"]here[/url] [Image: smile.gif] I haven't viewed it so I can say if it is good or not.





We are off the track of the original question regards Chloroform being used.

I think the subject has been covered well enough,although I don't agree with some of the methods used within this topic.[Image: wacko.gif]

Culling will away's be an emotive subject. Culling if undertaken should be as quick as possible,without causing stress and unnecessary suffering.
CHUCKLERS RULE THE ROOST - Dave. Zen Seeker of The Board. rabbit run
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#41
I can sympathise with where Suzie V's coming from - when I first used the dislocation method (having been instructed and demo'd by my experienced brother in law), the flapping made me panic that I'd not done it properly, so I ran off to find an axe. When I dashed back with it the cock was still and examination revealed that I had done it properly, but the thought that I might get it wrong makes me feel sick to the stomach.



I've read and re-read as much as I can find, and my fears seem to be borne out in that dislocation is humane when done properly . What if I make a mistake, or if the bird is too large / strong? The Humane Slaughter Association says that stunning beforehand is humane, and though they're talking about killing of larger numbers, I can see the advantages for my 1-2 cockerels, it would almost be like practising on a dead bird.



The problem for me is that percussion (bolt) stunners seem an unnecessarily dangerous thing to have around the house, and both they and the electric stunners are approaching £200. Surely it can't be that difficult to find something to render a bird unconscious before the deed is done? If there is, I can't find it.



The broomstick method seems to rely less on skill & experience than dislocating by hand, but how do you avoid crushing the neck when you stand on the broomstick?
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#42
The neck is not squashed as you might imagine. A stick or broomstick is only laid across the neck at first. I suppose you could put a hood over the chickens head too - thats suppose to calm them too.



Heres how:-



Hold the chicken upside down by its legs - it may flap a bit at first but usually they go limp and calm, with their neck outstretched immediately (try it with a live chicken - you wont hurt it - just be gentle and hold its head as you turn it upside down).



Rest its head, comb uppermost, on a flat surface (grass or concrete etc). It should be in an "L" shape with the bottom (horizontal part) of the "L" being its head resting on the ground and and long (vertical) part of the "L" shape being representative of the legs.



Make sure the head is straight with beak and eyes facing forward, i.e. not to the side



Gently lay the stick across the neck high up towards the back of the skull.



Step on the broom either side of the head whilst, almost simultaneously,pulling the legs gently but firmly upwards-do not "yank" or jerk. You will feel the neck give way a bit like elastic snapping. Its all over barr the flapping. Thats it.
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