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Interesting dispatch method
#1
I over-heard an interesting dispatch method earlier. The guy was explaining how he dispatches his birds with an air pistol. He purposely raises utility strain Sussex for the table. He has trialed various methods in the past from the standard broom stick method, hand held method, the French method etc. He was saying that the other methods induce stress into the birds before death, thus releasing adrenalin into the meat and making it slightly tougher no matter how long the carcass hangs for. He says that by removing the bird from the perch at night, lying it on the floor with its chin resting on the ground a single pellet (at point blank) through the top of the skull, exiting through the jaw into the ground results in instant death with minimal stress.



I was wondering, has anyone used this method before? What are people’s views on it? Is it a viable alternative to the methods we are familiar with? Maybe it will start a nice debate <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />
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#2
I think this is, as always, an interesting debate. I believe that I should be able to dispatch my own birds in either planned (cockerels) or emergency situations. Unfortunately, however, I'm still building up to it, and currently take mine to my lovely vet to be pts. He keeps chickens himself and although he obviously gives mine an injection, he 'necks' his own and has offered to teach me how to do it when I'm feeling brave. Having read this post, I really believe I'd find it easier to do this than to use any of the methods I've considered in the past. Waiting with interest to hear other people's opinion on this.
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#3
My personal opinion is that this method is by no means a stress free or good way to dispatch.The air rifle/ pistol would need to be very powerful,pointed in a downward way it would lose some of its speed and power. The kick from the gun would also lose some of accuracy intended to a degree.



It will stir some debate I agree.



Having shot fowl,pests etc with air rifles from distance, it is rare unless you hit the target well,that the kill is instant.
CHUCKLERS RULE THE ROOST - Dave. Zen Seeker of The Board. rabbit run
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#4
I have looked into this too. This method of dispatch uses the same principle as a captive bolt gun, although with a free pellet. The advantage is that it can be quickly done in the field and if it 'destroys' the birds brain stem, should be instant. My concerns are if the gun is low powered, the pellet might glance off the skull, or deviate resulting in a wounding, rather than death. I've no experience of this method, so I'd be interested to learn whether this produces a clean kill every time. I still use neck dislocation or the broomstick method, but I'm always on the look out for an instant clean kill method.
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#5
[quote name='zenith' date='25 May 2011 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1306328908' post='235234']

My personal opinion is that this method is by no means a stress free or good way to dispatch.The air rifle/ pistol would need to be very powerful,pointed in a downward way it would lose some of its speed and power. The kick from the gun would also lose some of accuracy intended to a degree.

[/quote]



I agree with zenith here - you really do need to know what you are doing with this method, brilliant if done proficiently, horific if not done so.

I also believe the birds should still be bled afterwards too.



The aim with home culling which ever method you use is to render immediate unconciousness as quickly as possible - the actual technical death (heart stopping) is secondary.

Unconciousness can be acheived several ways, electrical stunning - not practical to us hobby keepers, or via concussion - from a pellet or neck dislocation.

If neck dislocation is carried out correctly the bird is immediately stunned unconcious by the spinal cord pulling out from the base of the brain stem - causing immediate lack of consiousness from catastrophic brain injury - the body should then go on to technically die as the snapped blood vessles bleed out into the neck cavity that is left from the vertibrae dislocating.

It is important to use a round pole when using the broomstick method - this ensures the spinal cord is pulled out from the brain stem as opposed to snapped which can happen if using a square piece of timber instead of a pole - the neck/spinal cord can snap at the point of the corner of the timber, this does not render immediate unconcousness.



The Humane Slaughter Association does not reccomend 'neck pliers' or 'humane dispatchers' or decapitation - none of these render immediate unconsiousness.

They consider neck dislocation acceptable for small numbers or emergency culling by hobby keepers.

They mainly advocate one of two methods - electic stunning which is not really available to hobby keepers or a method of concussive stunning/killing similar to what Ross has mentioned with this topic - however they advise a certain piece of equipment only is used for this method and stress that done inefficiently has awful consequences for the poor bird.



I believe that using the broomstick is easier and more accesable to the vast majority of us although I know of someone whom dispatches their Turkeys via pellet and bleed.



I dont believe that you can get hold of 'The Humane Slaughter Assiciation's' down-load poultry slaughter leaflet for free - however they did an article for one of the smallholding magazines which many of you may find interesting..........



http://www.countrysmallholding.com/featu...ly--211815



sorry for the long waffle Ross <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Blush' />
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#6
My old mate uses an air pistol and ive seen him do it several times, its quick and easy. Very hard to mess up if you ask me, hard to miss from zero distance. He just holds the birds neck puts the pistol up to the birds head and pop, job done. Ive seen people make a right mess of other methods.
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#7
Please don't apologise Ross I found your waffle very interesting.

Personally I find the idea of shooting a bird at point blank range strangely repulsive. I know it doesn't make logical sense to feel that way I just do, I can see how if done correctly it would be an instant and stressfree affair. perhaps it was just the way I was brought up Anti-gun/weapon that is hanging around in my subconcious.
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#8
The Humane Slaughter Association does not reccomend 'neck pliers' or 'humane dispatchers' or decapitation - none of these render immediate unconsiousness.

They consider neck dislocation acceptable for small numbers or emergency culling by hobby keepers.



CC I am confused now, (well, even more so <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Tongue' /> ) How does the bird stay conscious without its head? When my friend comes round to despatch my sick chooks she does it the same way that the shooting people despatch the pheasants. I presumed it was neck dislocation and I know they jerk around for a bit, does it mean they are still conscious for a while. That's a dreadful thought <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='blink' />
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#9
having seen the airpistol way and broomstick way been done and to be quite frank the air pistol seemed to distress the birds less than faffing about getting their heads under a broomhandle, they know whats coming when u restrain their necks , ive not done both but that is my preference ,with the air pistol it is quick and yes i do agree you really must know what you are doing with one and not just load up and fire, for my dispatching i use long nosed pliers for chicks or ducklings up to 3 weeks of age then i used a dispatcher with slightly older , or get my hubby to pull necks(he cant do the babies) .
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#10
[quote name='Teazel' date='25 May 2011 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1306340451' post='235272']

The Humane Slaughter Association does not reccomend 'neck pliers' or 'humane dispatchers' or decapitation - none of these render immediate unconsiousness.

They consider neck dislocation acceptable for small numbers or emergency culling by hobby keepers.



CC I am confused now, (well, even more so <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Tongue' /> ) How does the bird stay conscious without its head? When my friend comes round to despatch my sick chooks she does it the same way that the shooting people despatch the pheasants. I presumed it was neck dislocation and I know they jerk around for a bit, does it mean they are still conscious for a while. That's a dreadful thought <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='blink' />

[/quote]





Teazel I think the flaping without head is the nerves and the rest of the system shutting down.I have witnessed a chicken minus head run quite a distance.Without its head and no connection to the brain,pain can't be felt.
CHUCKLERS RULE THE ROOST - Dave. Zen Seeker of The Board. rabbit run
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#11
[quote name='zenith' date='25 May 2011 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1306346643' post='235286']

Teazel I think the flaping without head is the nerves and the rest of the system shutting down.I have witnessed a chicken minus head run quite a distance.Without its head and no connection to the brain,pain can't be felt.

[/quote]



Thanks Zen that's relief!! I kept thinking of all those people beheaded and still feeling pain <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> But I couldnt see how it could happen!
It never worries me when I get a little lost, all I do is change where I'm going
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#12
I have to admit that our last hen to go went by the bullet: though this wasn't for the plate, it was really unwell.



Hubby holds his firearms licence, and I have to be honest, for a person who had never been involved in any real country pursuits, he has shown quite a skill. Mind you, his true vocation is a golf pro, so guess it would figure he has good aim.



I don't think he used an air gun, something a little more powerful, but not a machine gun!



Done properley, I think shooting is a good, quick and efficient way of despatching an animal small or large. My personal preference to be honest would probably be that. Mind you, that's not to say we pop the pets off with guns usually!



At the end of the day, however it is done, surely the principle remains the same: to cause absolute minimum distress and discomfort or pain to the animal. I think people need to find a way that works for them, and whilst despacthing an animal will never really sit quite comfortably with us, when it has to be done, the way that is least stressful for all involved is surley best for that situation?
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#13
<img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/goodpost.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':goodpost:' />
If they can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love.
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#14
[quote name='goldilocks' date='25 May 2011 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1306338065' post='235267']

Please don't apologise Ross I found your waffle very interesting.[/quote]



T'was me waffling - thus apologising for being so rude by doing so in Ross's thread <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />





[quote name='Teazel' date='25 May 2011 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1306340451' post='235272']

CC I am confused now, (well, even more so ) How does the bird stay conscious without its head? When my friend comes round to despatch my sick chooks she does it the same way that the shooting people despatch the pheasants. I presumed it was neck dislocation and I know they jerk around for a bit, does it mean they are still conscious for a while.[/quote]

[quote name='Teazel' date='25 May 2011 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1306353821' post='235295']

I kept thinking of all those people beheaded and still feeling pain - But I couldnt see how it could happen![/quote]



Decapitation is very different from neck dislocation Teazel.x

A decapitated animal or person is not rendered 'immediately' unconsious - tragically, the poor unfortunate soul brutalised in such a way can technically be concious for between 15 - 30 seconds - as that is approximately the time it takes the blood to drain sufficiently from the brain as to render unconsiousness <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Sad' />

Neck Dislocation, done correctly, renders immediate unconciousness by way of immediate catastrophic concussion - caused by the spinal cord being pulled from the brain stem.

After immediately inducing unconsiousness via concussion from either neck dislocation or air gun pellet, the nerves continue to send haywire messages to the muscles as they themselves die and the body 'closes down' - hence the bird flapping (or the shot horse trembling and paddling) - technically the heart can contine to beat for a very short time untill blood loss and nerve death renders it unable too.



'Technically' death does not occur for any of us, human or animal, untill the heart stops beating.............

but which is the more humane?.........

an immediately unconcious brain from concussion, followed by death of the body vessle,

or a stopped heart or decapitated body, first - with a concious mind for a while thereafter ?

I know which one I would choose -

Only the methods rendering 'immediate' lack of conciousness can surely be considered humane, however it is achieved <img src='http://poultrychat.com/oldforumIcons/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />
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#15
i agree choccy, i regard that its paramount that the bird feels no pain and it is done quick, efficently and accuratly. Its our responsibility and duty.



I feel that if this air pistol method could be explained by someone who uses it or has seen it in practise then maybe more people would feel at ease with dispatching.



I am sure people do not dispatch simply down to the 'very hands on' methods that are commonly used. For example, my missus does not like dispatching by hand, she constantly feels she will mess it up and she does not like the 'hands on' killing. However, i asked her last night about this air pistol method, and she said she would be quite happy to try it - providing she was shown what to do.



If people started using this method then maybe we would have less 'dumped' lads.
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